Italian food before pasta and tomatoes

[f***@gmail.com]

A few of us at work were wondering about what people in Italy ate before
the introduction of pasta? As I recall, both pasta and pizza were
brought back to Italy by Marco Polo during the middle-ages.
I have also heard that the tomatoe was native to the Americas and was
introduced to Europe after 1492. What was served on pasta before
tomatoes arrived? Lots of pesto? Cream sauces?
Any answers will be appreciated.

Pizza was invented in New York city around the turn of the early twentieth century by italian immigrants thats why New York pizza is the thin crust. Mant variations of the pizza have come from various parts of the United states such as chicago style thick pizza as well as Detroit style square deep dish pizza.I lived in Las Vegas years ago and ate at a local pizza place called Boston pizza it was the best I have eaten.

[f***@gmail.com]

: I have also heard that the tomatoe was native to the Americas and was
: introduced to Europe after 1492. What was served on pasta before
: tomatoes arrived? Lots of pesto? Cream sauces?
Going from my recollection of primarily 15th century Italian sources,
pasta was oten cooked in meat broth and served with cheese.
For what it's worth, if memory serves (sorry, my cookbook collection
is not here) there are pasta recipes in English cookbooks that predate
Marco Polo so I think it quite probable that pasta in Europe predated
Marco Polo.
Respectfully,
David Tallan

great info I just now learned thanks.

[n***@panix.com]

: I have also heard that the tomatoe was native to the Americas and was
: introduced to Europe after 1492. What was served on pasta before
: tomatoes arrived? Lots of pesto? Cream sauces?

Pasta, with or without sauce, is a very late arrival. In Medieval cuisine,
there is a lasagne precursor called (with various spellings) 'losyns' which is
thin flour dough, layered with broth and cheese. There's a recipe in the
14th c. English recipe collection family usually called 'Forme of Cury' for
this. There's another recipe in the same collection called 'Makerouns' which
is for another fresh pasta dish, with cheese and better.

For Italy in particular, there are some 14th and 15th century MS with some
pasta recipes. Libro per Cuoco has an herb,cheese, and egg filled ravioli,
for example, served topped with more cheese.

Barbara Santich, in 'The Original Mediterranean Cuisine' points out that
the term 'pasta' is late, but the food stuff was known since the fifth
century by the Greek term ittria, and may have been an orzo type. It was
commercially availble by the 14th century in Italy. She notes
that the standard way of cooking was in stock, or in water with salt
and some sort of lipid. Usually served with grated cheese, and sometimes
spices, as in the English recipes above.


JB
------------
Jeff Berry - http://www.aspiringluddite.com - food, musings, etc.
"I don't need TV when I got T-Rex" - Mott the Hoople

[n***@panix.com]

: I have also heard that the tomatoe was native to the Americas and was
: introduced to Europe after 1492. What was served on pasta before
: tomatoes arrived? Lots of pesto? Cream sauces?

For Italy in particular, there are some 14th and 15th century MS with some
pasta recipes. Libro per Cuoco has an herb,cheese, and egg filled ravioli,
for example, served topped with more cheese.

Barbara Santich, in 'The Original Mediterranean Cuisine' points out that
the term 'pasta' is late, but the food stuff was known since the fifth
century by the Greek term ittria, and may have been an orzo type. It was
commercially availble by the 14th century in Italy. She notes
that the standard way of cooking was in stock, or in water with salt
and some sort of lipid. Usually served with grated cheese, and sometimes
spices.

In Medieval English cuisine, there are also some pasta-type dishes.
There is a lasagne precursor called (with various spellings) 'losyns' which is
thin flour dough, layered with broth and cheese. There's a recipe in the
14th c. English recipe collection family usually called 'Forme of Cury' for
this. There's another recipe in the same collection called 'Makerouns' which
is for another fresh pasta dish, with cheese and butter.

JB
------------
Jeff Berry - http://www.aspiringluddite.com - food, musings, etc.
"I don't need TV when I got T-Rex" - Mott the Hoople

[Rob M]

A few of us at work were wondering about what people in Italy ate before
the introduction of pasta? As I recall, both pasta and pizza were
brought back to Italy by Marco Polo during the middle-ages.
I have also heard that the tomatoe was native to the Americas and was
introduced to Europe after 1492. What was served on pasta before
tomatoes arrived? Lots of pesto? Cream sauces?
Any answers will be appreciated.